Hillary or Elizabeth?
What I like about Hillary:
1) She has cojones. She will not let herself be kicked around like Obama did.
2) She at least started (I’m talking 1970s) as a genuine progressive and a very effective advocate for women’s rights globally. I like that she’s talking a more progressive line these days, but not convinced it’s sincere.
3) She has experience. I would not call her tenure as S of S a failure.
What I don’t like:
1) She’s made it abundantly clear that her loyalties are to Wall Street and her policies will be centrist, not progressive
2) Doesn’t have a clue about collaborative communication, social media, etc.
3) Isn’t likely to build an organizing structure that will continue to pressure GOP hacks during her term of office (Obama surprised me with his failure on this, considering what a great job he did with it as a candidate in 2008)
4) Will not be energizing to youth, other than the first woman card
5) Concerns about her ethics
What I like about Warren, even though I’m one who thinks she should stay in the Senate:
1) Excellent grasp of domestic economic issues and serious commitment to the poor and middle class
2) Wicked smart, as we say here in New England
3) Excellent organizer and communicator
On the minus side:
4) Alarmingly ignorant on foreign policy, especially her coziness with the Israel-right-or-wrong set
5) Way too inexperienced–if you think Obama was out of his depth…
6) Those who think Hillary is the wrong generation (not an issue for me, BTW) will attack her on the same grounds–she’s only a few years younger, though she relates to youth much better
7) Most importantly, she’s been very effective in pushing Congress and Obama leftward. We need smart, articulate people pushing a progressive agenda. Right now, the press pays lots of attention to her–but they will go away if she runs less than 20% in the primaries (and she’ll probably run more like 3 to 5%). Kucinich was nearly completely ignored.
8) And she doesn’t want to run. A candidate who doesn’t engage fully in the campaign would be a disaster.
A lifelong activist, profitability and marketing specialist Shel Horowitz’s mission is to fix crises like hunger, poverty, racism, war, and catastrophic climate change—by showing the business world how fixing them can make a profit. An author, international speaker, and TEDx Talker, his award-winning 10th book, Guerrilla Marketing to Heal the World, lays out a blueprint for creating and MARKETING those profitable change-making products and services. He is happy to help you craft your messaging and develop profit strategies. Learn more (and download excerpts from the book) at http://goingbeyondsustainability.com
Not seeing the transcript. I’d have been happy to read it. I am listening, but it’s taking them a long time to get around to Elizabeth Warren
Ryan Lizza interviews on WNYC by Brian Lehrer on Hill vs. Liz audio plus transcript https://www.wnyc.org/story/elizabeth-warrens-campaign/
Shel, you’re so thoughtful, savvy, and wise – and interestingly, your political ideas so neatly dovetail with my own!
At this point it’s Clinton vs the other declared candidates (Republican). Boy the US election season is LONG.
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I hope you’re right, Federico DelaCruz II. Because like you and Marcia Miller and Dinah Kudatsky, I think she’s the best we’re going to get this time around (and plan to hold my nose and vote for her in the general election, unless there’s a credible alternative). And the threat of Warren is moving her rhetoric at least a few steps leftward. However, if there’s a more progressive candidate in the *primary,* that’s a different matter.
Also Shel…I think Hillary has the brand equity to take this one. All those years will pay off now. Warren not as much. A lot of politics is personal marketing these days…more than I would like to see.
Bernie Sanders is good, but independent and can’t win as a socialist platform.
I like Elizabeth Warren but I believe she cannot win, Therefore, Hill. It is most imperative that we keep another war monger like Bush from the Presidency. Also, a GOP Potus will take the country backwards imho, such as reproductive rights and equal pay for equal work for women, a no brainer issue. Ps Nixon was a huge anti-semite. I( would however like to see mych more priority on the environment, anti-fracking, clean water/air, etc. All anyone seems to care about is the economy.
Lisa Kleinholz I have often said Nixon’s environmental record was more progressive than Obama’s. Thank you for reminding us of why.
Reading book on Nixon presidency right now (for work). Why did he sign legislation like Clean Water Act, etc.? Very strong progressive Democrats in Congress were pushing it, with lots of grassroots activism. He gave in to pressure. A president doesn’t shape domestic legislation as much as Congress and public pressure do. HIs Supreme Court nominees were a disaster. A Clinton presidency with strong progressive Congress and pressure from activists could be the best way to get a progressive agenda enacted and enforced.
Good article on Warren in New Yorker this week by Lizza. Interesting how she worked with community banks to defeat big bank opposition to CFPB.
Hillary isn’t totally out of touch on social media – there was that meme that she played into perfectly a while ago, with the photo of her texting. My Facebook friends are disproportionately Wellesley alums so they might not be totally representative, but I do know a fair number of young women who will go all out to get her in office.
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Astute dissertation on Hillary though Shel Horowitz. Personally, I don’t trust her though…but I haven’t trusted a politician since Lincoln…lol
If Hillary wins does she bring Bill to The White House? That is kind of a buy one get one free deal. No offense to her independence, but Bill’s experience might be an asset to the country. Are they even getting along these days though? I am out of the loop.
No Vietnam around strongly motivating questioning and seeking alternative. We were “lucky”.
I think it takes an education effort. Deliberate, a trusting one.
Amen, sister Dinah. You sum up my thoughts rather perfectly. Richard Witty. I agree we need to groom a new generation. Obama was quite young when he ran. Where are his contemporaries and juniors?
If Elizabeth Warren WANTED to run, I think she could be very competitive with HRC. No one explains the issues of economic inequality and immobility better than EW (along with Robert Reich, who’s also passionate and eloquent). But given that neither shows any signs of running, we have to put our passion towards the issues they espouse, and keep nudging (and noodging) HRC to the left. Bernie Sanders has all the right ideas for the Presidency, but he’s older still, and also doesn’t have EW’s charisma and popularity, so I’m afraid the best he’ll do is to keep the issues of economic and trade fairness in the forefront – which is part of what we want. I don’t think he has a shot against Hillary, but I’m for anyone who can speak for progressive issues in the Democratic Party.
I will not support anyone in the Green Party or other third party for President. There’s no one who can realistically win, but there’s the obvious risk that the election could once again be “Naderized”. I was a fan of Nader’s prior to 2000, but will not forgive him for caring more about his ego than the country, and for bullshitting that the Dems and Reps were Tweedledum and Tweedledee – identical corporate shills. Think of the SCOTUS choices Reagan and the Bushes made – Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Alito – and then try to make a case that there’s no difference!
So, I hope that Sanders, Warren, Reich, and others on the left (Bill Moyers, Thom Hartmann, etc) keep speaking out, and when Hillary gets the nomination, I expect to support her with mixed feelings. Having her in office will relieve us of the terror of a Republican choosing the next 3 SCOTUS nominees. But democracy takes place more than one day in November every 4 years, so we keep fighting for workers’ rights, women’s and other civil rights, fair trade, reviving manufacturing, a living wage, investing in infrastructure, education, and diplomacy, etc. As Thom Hartmann says, democracy is not a spectator sport: Tag, you’re IT!
Hillary – is in the GMO pockets
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Hillary is a militarist in foreign policy.
Elizabeth does an amazing job where she is! We need that.
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neither. green party.
Good points Shel. It is about where I am at in my thinking. Reluctant to support Hillary because I don’t ompletely trust her. Warren, agreed, inexperienced. Either would be a thousand per cent better than the alternatives we will offered.
Re: the poor vs. middle class. The middle class (around the middle quintile in income) is being pounded, becoming poorer, with fewer options, opportunities for the young, and much less job and benefit security.
I’ve always liked Hillary. I love Warren, but I feel she’ll be more effective as a progressive leader in the Senate. I also think Hillary has best change in general against whatever GOP throws at her.
Hillary is the only democrat qualified to be president among the lists cited, maybe a few that I don’t know well.
But, she, Warren, Saunders are old now, old in bodies, old in thinking.
There is limited new blood coming up, and that is what should be the focus.
Hillary will win the ’16 election and serve one difficult term. (There will be likely difficult international problems, and nearly certain economic.)
We NEED a green frankly, that is capable of facilitating the beginning of transition to sustainable economy (which is very far from what has been articulated by current leading politicians.) But, a green takes votes away from democrats, who at least understand the concept of solving problems.
Well, of course, there are political reasons for not mentioning the poor. I just think it’s interesting.
Wall Street finances the Party, you know. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Mary Serreze She doesn’t talk about the poor because she knows that’s a political no-no. But when she says “middle class,” the impression I get is that she’s often talking about the working poor. She talks about her own very-much working-class roots as “middle class.” Steve Resnick I am not a Biden fan. I don’t trust him AT ALL. Ted Cartselos Great idea! Dan Uitti That’s part of my 5th reason not to be thrilled about a Hillary candidacy.
Warren would make an interesting Secretary of the Treasury. Not that that’s going to happen.
Hilary thus far seems to emphasize women’s rights. Warren talks anti corporate/ fat cats. Not that women’s rights are not an issue, but there is some movement and momentum started. Corporate and 1% stuff has no movement against it. The financial crisis, with potential financial disaster has only had ONE person going to jail, with harpy ANY changes being enforced. I agree with the idea that Warren is too inexperienced, but maybe 2020? or maybe Biden/Warren?
So what really happened to Vincent Foster, Hillary’s attorney
If you listen to Warren, she rarely mentions the poor. She talks about the middle class. No judgment; just an observation.